Abu Talib (ra) was he Muslim ?
Abu Talib (ra) was he Muslim ?
The sunni have mixed reports on the imaan of Abu Talib. What is the zaidi shia view on him?
Abu Talib, a believer
salamz!
The Zaidi view is that Abu Talib was a believer. There is a chapter dedicated to proving the iman of Abu Talib in the Zaidi book of tafsir; however, I forgot the name of the text.
I'm curious as to why you recite the tardiya (ra) for Abu Talib when the Sunni opinion is that he was a disbeliever?
your brother,
Student
The Zaidi view is that Abu Talib was a believer. There is a chapter dedicated to proving the iman of Abu Talib in the Zaidi book of tafsir; however, I forgot the name of the text.
I'm curious as to why you recite the tardiya (ra) for Abu Talib when the Sunni opinion is that he was a disbeliever?
your brother,
Student
Brother Talib
The sunnis also have allama who are Syeds and have stuck to the Madhab of Ahlul Bayt.
We might follow the 4 imams in fiqh , but there are still sunni Syeds who have held on the Madhab of Ahlul bayt.
Syed Ninowy (db) is a Hussani Syed and he stated that Hz Abu Talib(ra)
was Muslim.
Syed Ninowy in a lecture states Abu Sufyan and Muawiyah were enemies of Islam till the end and they got time to accept Islam even after their crimes. Yet Abu Talib (ra) who supported the Prophet could not accept Islam ?
This was the logic he used.
As for the reports stated in Sahih Bukhari they are sahih but sahih does not mean they are infallible.
We know the praises of Imam Ali (as) are missing in Bukahari because the Muawiyah used to chop the heads of those people who praised Ali.Therefore, Bukhari is good source but its not an infallible book. Those that believe Abu Talib was not Muslim i guess they can based their methodology on authentication of Sahih hadith.
The sunnis also have allama who are Syeds and have stuck to the Madhab of Ahlul Bayt.
We might follow the 4 imams in fiqh , but there are still sunni Syeds who have held on the Madhab of Ahlul bayt.
Syed Ninowy (db) is a Hussani Syed and he stated that Hz Abu Talib(ra)
was Muslim.
Syed Ninowy in a lecture states Abu Sufyan and Muawiyah were enemies of Islam till the end and they got time to accept Islam even after their crimes. Yet Abu Talib (ra) who supported the Prophet could not accept Islam ?
This was the logic he used.
As for the reports stated in Sahih Bukhari they are sahih but sahih does not mean they are infallible.
We know the praises of Imam Ali (as) are missing in Bukahari because the Muawiyah used to chop the heads of those people who praised Ali.Therefore, Bukhari is good source but its not an infallible book. Those that believe Abu Talib was not Muslim i guess they can based their methodology on authentication of Sahih hadith.
Here is another source on Abu Talib (ra) written by Syed Amiruddin from India
Q. What do the Ulema of Ahlus Sunnah say regarding the religion of Abu Talib, the uncle of the Messenger of Allah and the father of Ali? Are there not clear Ahadith in Muslim Sheriff which state that he will be punished in Hell?
A. The belief of Imam Ahmed Rida Khan al-Barelwī (may Allah be pleased with him) in the later part of his life was that Hadrat Abu Talib was a Believer. This could imply that he regarded the Ahadith of Muslim as a forgery. However, even if we were to accept the Hadith of Muslim, which states that Abu Talib would be punished with the lowest form of punishment in the Fire, there is still no mention in those Ahadith stating he was a Kafir.
Additionally, the author of the well renowned book Sirat-An-Nabi, Allamah Shibli Nu'mani also believed that Abu Talib was a Believer and he recited the Kalima at the time of his death in presence of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) into the ears of Al Abbas.
He also disregarded the narrations of Muslim and Bukhari as being unreliable because their narrator was not only a Kafir himself at the time when he allegedly witnessed this event, but states that he was actually not even present in the room with the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), Abu Talib and the Prophet’s uncles and therefore, this tradition is "not worth taking as reliable".
Here is the excerpt from Allamah Shibli Nu'mani's book Sirat-An-Nabi, from Vol 1. "Death of Khadija and Abu Talib" P. 223-224:
“The Prophet asked Abu Talib to recite the credo of Islam La illa ha illallah Muhammadur Rasulullah, so that he might bear witness to his faith in the presence of Allah (SWT). Abu Jahil and Ibn Umayya expostulated with Abu Talib and asked if he was going to turn away from the religion of Abd al-Muttalib. In the end, Abu Talib said he was dying with his belief in the religion of Abd al Muttalib. Then he turned to the Prophet (S) and said that he would have recited that creed, but he feared lest the Quraish should accuse him of the fear of death. The Prophet (S) said that he would be praying to Allah for him till He forbade. This is the version of Al Bukhari and Muslim. Ibn Ishaq says that while dying Abu Talib's lips were in motion. Abbas, (the Prophet's uncle)...put his ears to his lips and said to the Prophet (S) that he was reciting the KALIMA the Prophet (S) had wanted of him. It is on account of these conflicting reports that there is such a difference of opinion regarding the Islam of Abu Talib. But as the version of Al Bukhari is generally considered to be more trustworthy, the traditionalists hold him to have died an unbeliever.
But from a traditionalist point of view, this report of Al Bukhari is not worth taking as reliable because the last narrator is Musaiyyab who embraced Islam after the fall of Mecca and was not himself present at the time of Abu Talib's death. It is on this account that Al Aini, in his commentary has remarked that this tradition is mursal.” (Nu’mani, Sirat-An-Nabi, Vol.1 p.224)
Additionally, Abdul Muttalib was the Holy Prophet’s grandfather, so even if Abu Talib died on the religion of Abdul Muttalib, that still does not prove that he died an unbeliever. The author of Tafsir Uthmani also backed this belief, that all of the fathers of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) were Believers. He wrote regarding the verse "And rely on the Almighty, the Merciful, Who sees you when you rise up, and your descending (lit. "taking turns") among those who fall prostrate in worship (sajidin)."(26:217-219):
"Some of the earlier writers have said that in this verse sajidin represents the fathers of the Holy Prophet (s), that is, the translation [i.e. transmission] of the Light of the Last Messenger (s) from one prophet to the other prophet culminating in the external appearance of the Prophet (s) in this world of matter. The scholars said by this verse the Iman of both of the Prophet's parents is confirmed.” (Uthmani, Tafsir Uthmani, Vol.2, p. 1657)
The Grand Muhaddith of Morocco wrote that the Dajjal will descend from the Bani Israel, who claim superiority to the Messenger of Allah and his ancestors due to their relation to other Prophets from their tribe. Additionally, we find in the books of the Ulema of Ahlus Sunnah, Sayyidina Ali (Rad)’s comments about the Khwarij, “the last of them will fight on the side of the Antichrist” (ie. they will side with the Bani Israel over the Bani Hashim, whose Imam will be Imam Al Mahdi). Therefore, it is better and more safe to give the family and ancestors of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) preference to the Bani Israel.
Hence, in our view, the more appropriate view is that Abu Talib was a Believer as were all of the ancestors of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), including Abdul Muttalib. If the Bani Israel (Sons of Yaqub) (peace be upon him) followed the religion of their ‘ancestor’ Ibrahim (peace be upon him) as they told their father Yaqub (AS) at the time of his death, so too did the descendents of Hashim who were the direct ancestors of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, the Seal and Imam of all Prophets.
And Allah Knows Best!
Ahmed Amiruddin
Source:
Sirat-An-Nabi (The Life of the Prophet), by Allamah Shibli Nu'mani, rendered into English by M. Tayyib Budayuni. Rightway Publications, New Delhi, India. From Vol 1. "Death of Khadija and Abu Talib" P. 223-224.
Tafsir Uthmani, Allama Shabbir Ahmad Uthmani, trans. Muhammad Ashfaq Ahmad (Bombay: Taj Publishers, 1992) vol. 2, p. 1657.
http://www.alsunnahfoundation.org/Abu_Talib.html
Q. What do the Ulema of Ahlus Sunnah say regarding the religion of Abu Talib, the uncle of the Messenger of Allah and the father of Ali? Are there not clear Ahadith in Muslim Sheriff which state that he will be punished in Hell?
A. The belief of Imam Ahmed Rida Khan al-Barelwī (may Allah be pleased with him) in the later part of his life was that Hadrat Abu Talib was a Believer. This could imply that he regarded the Ahadith of Muslim as a forgery. However, even if we were to accept the Hadith of Muslim, which states that Abu Talib would be punished with the lowest form of punishment in the Fire, there is still no mention in those Ahadith stating he was a Kafir.
Additionally, the author of the well renowned book Sirat-An-Nabi, Allamah Shibli Nu'mani also believed that Abu Talib was a Believer and he recited the Kalima at the time of his death in presence of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) into the ears of Al Abbas.
He also disregarded the narrations of Muslim and Bukhari as being unreliable because their narrator was not only a Kafir himself at the time when he allegedly witnessed this event, but states that he was actually not even present in the room with the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), Abu Talib and the Prophet’s uncles and therefore, this tradition is "not worth taking as reliable".
Here is the excerpt from Allamah Shibli Nu'mani's book Sirat-An-Nabi, from Vol 1. "Death of Khadija and Abu Talib" P. 223-224:
“The Prophet asked Abu Talib to recite the credo of Islam La illa ha illallah Muhammadur Rasulullah, so that he might bear witness to his faith in the presence of Allah (SWT). Abu Jahil and Ibn Umayya expostulated with Abu Talib and asked if he was going to turn away from the religion of Abd al-Muttalib. In the end, Abu Talib said he was dying with his belief in the religion of Abd al Muttalib. Then he turned to the Prophet (S) and said that he would have recited that creed, but he feared lest the Quraish should accuse him of the fear of death. The Prophet (S) said that he would be praying to Allah for him till He forbade. This is the version of Al Bukhari and Muslim. Ibn Ishaq says that while dying Abu Talib's lips were in motion. Abbas, (the Prophet's uncle)...put his ears to his lips and said to the Prophet (S) that he was reciting the KALIMA the Prophet (S) had wanted of him. It is on account of these conflicting reports that there is such a difference of opinion regarding the Islam of Abu Talib. But as the version of Al Bukhari is generally considered to be more trustworthy, the traditionalists hold him to have died an unbeliever.
But from a traditionalist point of view, this report of Al Bukhari is not worth taking as reliable because the last narrator is Musaiyyab who embraced Islam after the fall of Mecca and was not himself present at the time of Abu Talib's death. It is on this account that Al Aini, in his commentary has remarked that this tradition is mursal.” (Nu’mani, Sirat-An-Nabi, Vol.1 p.224)
Additionally, Abdul Muttalib was the Holy Prophet’s grandfather, so even if Abu Talib died on the religion of Abdul Muttalib, that still does not prove that he died an unbeliever. The author of Tafsir Uthmani also backed this belief, that all of the fathers of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) were Believers. He wrote regarding the verse "And rely on the Almighty, the Merciful, Who sees you when you rise up, and your descending (lit. "taking turns") among those who fall prostrate in worship (sajidin)."(26:217-219):
"Some of the earlier writers have said that in this verse sajidin represents the fathers of the Holy Prophet (s), that is, the translation [i.e. transmission] of the Light of the Last Messenger (s) from one prophet to the other prophet culminating in the external appearance of the Prophet (s) in this world of matter. The scholars said by this verse the Iman of both of the Prophet's parents is confirmed.” (Uthmani, Tafsir Uthmani, Vol.2, p. 1657)
The Grand Muhaddith of Morocco wrote that the Dajjal will descend from the Bani Israel, who claim superiority to the Messenger of Allah and his ancestors due to their relation to other Prophets from their tribe. Additionally, we find in the books of the Ulema of Ahlus Sunnah, Sayyidina Ali (Rad)’s comments about the Khwarij, “the last of them will fight on the side of the Antichrist” (ie. they will side with the Bani Israel over the Bani Hashim, whose Imam will be Imam Al Mahdi). Therefore, it is better and more safe to give the family and ancestors of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) preference to the Bani Israel.
Hence, in our view, the more appropriate view is that Abu Talib was a Believer as were all of the ancestors of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), including Abdul Muttalib. If the Bani Israel (Sons of Yaqub) (peace be upon him) followed the religion of their ‘ancestor’ Ibrahim (peace be upon him) as they told their father Yaqub (AS) at the time of his death, so too did the descendents of Hashim who were the direct ancestors of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, the Seal and Imam of all Prophets.
And Allah Knows Best!
Ahmed Amiruddin
Source:
Sirat-An-Nabi (The Life of the Prophet), by Allamah Shibli Nu'mani, rendered into English by M. Tayyib Budayuni. Rightway Publications, New Delhi, India. From Vol 1. "Death of Khadija and Abu Talib" P. 223-224.
Tafsir Uthmani, Allama Shabbir Ahmad Uthmani, trans. Muhammad Ashfaq Ahmad (Bombay: Taj Publishers, 1992) vol. 2, p. 1657.
http://www.alsunnahfoundation.org/Abu_Talib.html