new guy

[Talib Ali]

as salaamu alaykum everyone!

Im new to the English forum!

Much love to my akh, Khalid, for signing me up!

I look forward to learning from you all!

yours,

T

[Nader]

You're most welcome here my bro
Inshallah you will get learn and teach

welcome again
regards

[Talib Ali]

salamz ya Nader!

Thanks!

Please be patient with me because I don't know that much about madhhab az-Zaydiyya and I don't read Arabic.

I was curious about something.

Do the Zaydiyya consider the appointment of Ali to be implicit or explicit? Meaning was the appt. clear or subtle?

If it was subtle, couldn't the Prophet (saws) appointing Abu bakr to be imam of the prayers when he was sick be a subtle proof as well?

Thanks!

your brother,

T

[Nader]

It was implicit or subtle as you expressed.
Mohammed (pbuh) didn't say that Imam Ali is the one who shall lead Muslims after him but what he said in (wadaa speech) implies that Ali is the master of every Muslim. And to all those who obey Mohammed, you should obey Ali as well.

[Talib Ali]

salamz!

Oh...Masha-Allah!

So, that would be the reason why the Zaydiyya do not discredit the majority of Companions for not making Ali the first Imam! The designation wasn't clear.

However, doesn't this imply naakhis (defiency) on the part of the Prophet (saws) for not making the designation clear?

Thanks Br. Nader!

yours,

T

[آفاق]

Salam brother Taleb

if you allow me to comment on your question, i can tell you my own justification for why the profit did not make appointing Imam Ali very explicit. The profit I think didn’t want to make it Sunna for others to appoint Imamas or leaders in advance but imams should be elected by his people of his time, in other words, given (bai3a) but he tried in many occations to make people realize that Imam Ali is the most qualified one as he want people to chose him by themselves after knowing his attributes and position among other Sahaba.

so I think that is why it was not made explicit if it has been really approved that it was not explicit. and I think this is very logic. as whatever the profit does, it will be taken as sunna and a way of practicing any behaviour.

I am just giving my opinion here and Alla subhana knows more and those who have the knowledge, as they must have more comprehensive answer to your question

salam

[نشوان الحميري]

Salam brother Taleb

if you allow me to comment on your question, i can tell you my own justification for why the profit did not make appointing Imam Ali very explicit. The profit I think didn’t want to make it Sunna for others to appoint Imamas or leaders in advance but imams should be elected by his people of his time, in other words, given (bai3a) but he tried in many occations to make people realize that Imam Ali is the most qualified one as he want people to chose him by themselves after knowing his attributes and position among other Sahaba.

so I think that is why it was not made explicit if it has been really approved that it was not explicit. and I think this is very logic. as whatever the profit does, it will be taken as sunna and a way of practicing any behaviour.

I am just giving my opinion here and Alla subhana knows more and those who have the knowledge, as they must have more comprehensive answer to your question

salam

First of all i would like to welcome u both brother Talib and sister A'afag and I agree with u sister fully.

my best rgards to everyone

[محمد النفس الزكية]

The profit I think didn’t want to make it Sunna for others to appoint Imamas or leaders in advance but imams should be elected by his people of his time, in other words, given (bai3a) but he tried in many occations to make people realize that Imam Ali is the most qualified one as he want people to chose him by themselves after knowing his attributes and position among other Sahaba.

as you said, it's your own justification, but i think most of the Zaidism believe that the prophet choose Imam Ali to be the khalefah clearly , also Qura'an mention Imam Ali to be the Khlaifah on ayat alwlayah ..

oh I forgat to welcome alhabeeb Talib

[Nader]

Waw, topic is being widen.

if you allow me to comment on your question, i can tell you my own justification for why the profit did not make appointing Imam Ali very explicit.

salam

Did you mean very implicit???? cause I am confused now.

as you said, it's your own justification, but i think most of the Zaidism believe that the prophet choose Imam Ali to be the khalefah clearly , also Qura'an mention Imam Ali to be the Khlaifah on ayat alwlayah ..

oh I forgat to welcome alhabeeb Talib

Clearly means that prophet Mohammed (pbuh) said that " Ali shall be leading you after my death" but this didn't happen my brother.
In Arabic we say that it is :نص خفي

Second , Ayat alwalaya can be explained in other manners, and it didn't mention Ali himself.

All what I want to say that Imam Ali was the most qualified one to have the leadership after prophet death because of his characteristics.

Thanks brothers and sisters

[لــؤي]

welcome welcome bro

[Talib Ali]

slamz!

Thanx to everyone for their warm welcomes!

Also thanx to every one for their replies!

Now, in regards to a subtle appointment, there's no doubt that Ali has the most fada'il (virtues) out of all of the Companions. And the statement at Ghadeer "Whoever I am his mawla..." can be taken to imply that Ali was the best man for the job.

However, if one thinks about the fact that the Prophet (sawaws) appointed Abu Bakr as an imam for prayer when he (saws) was sick and on his deathbed, one could also say that this was a subtle proof (ie. proof that Abu Bakr should be his caliph). The proof of that is when the Prophet (saws) led the other anbiya in salah during the Mi'raj, this showed that he was the imamul Mursaleen! By letting Abu Bakr lead the muslims in salah, this could imply that he (as) wanted him to be imamul Muslimin!

Our sister A'afag said:
"The profit I think didn’t want to make it Sunna for others to appoint Imamas or leaders in advance but imams should be elected by his people of his time,"
--Well, didn't almost all of the caliphs after him (as) appoint the next caliph in advance? Abu Bakr appointed Umar, Muawiyah appointed his son Yazid, etc. With all due respect to you sister, maybe this isn't good reasoning. Then again, maybe it is!

Allahu Alim!

I'm not taking either side, I'm just using the arguments that I've heard.

What do you all think?

your brother,

T

[وجدانُ الأمةِ]

Sallam
welcome brother Talib
I am happy to see your name here and I hope that you will find the answers for your questions.
Good luck

[أحمد الشامي]

SALAAAAAAAAM

WELCOME WELCOME WELCOME.... Its nice to see you here in the forum, and I bet that the froum is going to benefit from you alot....I will reply to some of your question as soon as I get a chance... and if one of the brothers is already taking care of it, then I will leave both of you alone...lol..... or I Might help from time to time... Anyways... 100 Welcomes .... I hope you enjoy your time here and gain alot of knowlodge and have fun....

Take care..Salam

Ahmed

[الامير الصنعاني]

Welcome here bro Talib Ali
Brother u said that u dont read arabic? why is that ? Is it because cant read the Arabic language or is it because ur machine cannot read the arabic letters?
If its the second reason, then I think I can help u fixing this problem.

Regarding ur question.
U r asking the zaydees and I am not a Zaydee so i guess I ll just be silent.
salaaam 2 u all

[Talib Ali]

salaamz to all of my akhs and ukhts!

Unfortunately, I can't read Arabic! but I hope to soon insha-Allah!

If I did read Arabic, I'm sure that the books on the al-basair.org site would help also!

Br. Ahmed! Whats up, bro? Always a pleasure talking to you!

Oh yeah, another question, are there any websites with Sh. Muhammad Husayn Aamer reciting Qur'an other than al-basair.org? Masha-Allah, he is awesome! I wanna hear more!

fimanillah!

T