Dear brothers and Sisters:
I hope that you are all in a good health. It's been a while since I left this forum, because I was busy with several with work and school. Anyways..... I bit that all of you heard about the Danish newspapers, and the comics about Prophet Mohammed. Of course it is an unpleasent and rejected act, but lets face the reality and think with our minds, (not our hearts and feelings).
I was really disappointed from Muslims who over reacted against the Danish government. I started asking my self.... If Prophet Mohammed is alive, would he do or ask us to do even 1% from what we did? ... Prophet Muhammed was occasionally on problems with Mushrkeen and Kufar as most of you know, and they used to tease him and make fun of him, but he used to smile and ignore what ever they used to to do him. Those harsh people, converted to Islam, because of what they saw from Muhammed... Muhammed, the illeterate person, who couldn't read and write, had HIGH MANNERS... Should we treat people the same way they are treating us...Or should we treat them with higher standards.
I guess bycotting Danish prodcuts was a good lesson for the Danish newspaper, and , a the Danish Government. (Although, I am personally against the boycott too, because Trade and exchange is the best way to develop our societies)... The newspapers always made comics about GOD... I am saying GOD... not Prophet Muhammed... and nobody used to talk..... French Newspapers always made and are still making comics about God... and nobody is reacting or even whispering... WHY DENEMARK? Why not any other country?
After publishing Comics about Prophet Muhammed on the Danish newspaper, and after the chaos done by Muslims.... French, German, Spanish, Italian...etc Newspapers republished them again in order to stand with Denemark for the sake the European Union and Christanity.... Then.. why don't we boycott Germany... why dont we boycott Italy, France, Spain.... For your information, Danish people respect Islam... I know alot of Muslims in Denemark, and they always tell me that they are happy in Denemark.... It is just that some biased and prejidcue people did this.
Prophet Muhammed is higher and above than all what they said. Instead of doing pointless rally's everyday, we should introduce to them Islam in a nice way!... because we are introducing it the way Prophet Muhammed did... We are either Extreemist or Ignorant... We should also introdcue to them the life of Prohphet Muhammed and tell them what he gave humanity and how did he change history. All what Muslims did is totally rejected. ....
I didn't mention every single point about this topic, but I mentioned the important ideas that can be discussed. I didn't mention the history of the comics, and how did Musilms add some comics just to make the Arab and Muslim world go crazy...Anyways, I hope that you share your ideas and information with me... Thank you very much...
Ahmed Alshami
Did we do the right think with the Danish People/Government
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أحمد الشامي
- مشترك في مجالس آل محمد
- مشاركات: 95
- اشترك في: الأربعاء مارس 03, 2004 3:26 am
- مكان: Washington D.C., USA
Did we do the right think with the Danish People/Government
أللهم إني كنت كما أحب فاجعلني كما تحب
Dear Ahmed, thanks for your time to write your point of view toward this issue. I agree with most of what you said but I have comments about some of the points you mentioned:
First of all, the way that Prophet Mohammed acts towards people who were trying to tease him is different case because it is related to his behavior as a messenger of Allah. But our situation is different because Mohammed is a legend for us and any hurt to him is treated as hurt to Islam.
Second, I agree that the boycotting beside interlocution is better than burnings organization and any other violent actions. But even boycotting must be done in a decent and organized way in order not to let any other parties like money makers and business men to take advantage of the boycotting for their own benefits.
I have other points but time doesn’t help me write them all. I will stop here.
Regards
First of all, the way that Prophet Mohammed acts towards people who were trying to tease him is different case because it is related to his behavior as a messenger of Allah. But our situation is different because Mohammed is a legend for us and any hurt to him is treated as hurt to Islam.
Second, I agree that the boycotting beside interlocution is better than burnings organization and any other violent actions. But even boycotting must be done in a decent and organized way in order not to let any other parties like money makers and business men to take advantage of the boycotting for their own benefits.
I have other points but time doesn’t help me write them all. I will stop here.
Regards
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أحمد الشامي
- مشترك في مجالس آل محمد
- مشاركات: 95
- اشترك في: الأربعاء مارس 03, 2004 3:26 am
- مكان: Washington D.C., USA
Salam
i am happy to participate in this majlis and i hope it will be very useful.
i was shocked when i read what u said about the bycotting mr Ahmad. i know that what we did was the right thing because alot of people got curious about the man who the arab world stood for, and now alot of people started to read about him in order to know him better . besides this incidence brought all the muslims together and it gave some people hope (the arab world could still act as one) . Maybe our prophit wouldnt do that if he lived ,but im with mr. Nader.
with all do respect i strongly disagree with your opinion
thanx[/quote]
i am happy to participate in this majlis and i hope it will be very useful.
i was shocked when i read what u said about the bycotting mr Ahmad. i know that what we did was the right thing because alot of people got curious about the man who the arab world stood for, and now alot of people started to read about him in order to know him better . besides this incidence brought all the muslims together and it gave some people hope (the arab world could still act as one) . Maybe our prophit wouldnt do that if he lived ,but im with mr. Nader.
with all do respect i strongly disagree with your opinion
thanx[/quote]
الله أكبر كلما صدح الرصاص وغرد
الله اكبر كلما صوت القنابل غرد
الله اكبر كلما صوت القنابل غرد
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ALNASSER LEDEEN ALLAH
- مشترك في مجالس آل محمد
- مشاركات: 51
- اشترك في: الجمعة يوليو 14, 2006 4:08 am
To spread Islam we have to be strong. So, for those who are trying to make execuses for themselves , you better know that writing to make people love you is a bad thing even if you are in the White house. You have to say the truth. I know the guy at the begining knows that our way was the least we could do because if that happened during the era of our prophet (Pbuh) Al-Imam Ali would have cut the drawer head in the same time.
Best regards to you all
We are weak but this is not an execuse
Best regards to you all
We are weak but this is not an execuse
على قدر أهل العزم تأتي العزائم
وتأتي على قدر الكرام المكارم
وتأتي على قدر الكرام المكارم
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أحمد الشامي
- مشترك في مجالس آل محمد
- مشاركات: 95
- اشترك في: الأربعاء مارس 03, 2004 3:26 am
- مكان: Washington D.C., USA
Salam,
I would like to start my reply by praising our beloved Prophet Mohammed Peace be upon him and his family.
Al Imam Ali (Aleeh al salam) said: "If Poverty was a man, would've killed him." Sadly, we are a nation of poor people at heart and money. At heart, because we are people that belong in governmetns that could not have the guts or the ability to boycott those who are able to really harm us. Money wise, I am in pain to admit that we don't have the economic structure to sustain us. Besides, the demeaning deception that we felt from the Danish comics about the Prophet were not a representation of their society nor their government. It was a successful trial from an unethical agnostic or atheist who is seeking advancement in his position by increasing paper flow which is a marketing strategy, and unfortunatily his trigger was targetting a low level intelect population and we fell for it, which caused not only a negative behavious, that are totally against the teachings ofour Prophit, but as well the Quran. God said in the Quran : " And if the ignorant address them , they say, Peace!" God also said in the Quran : "When they pass by what is vain,they pass by nobly" both of these versus are from Surat Al Forqan Chapter 25 in the Quran. Both of these versue are a direct opposit of the reaction from the majority of our population, but as well caused us the cost of rebuilding and repairing the investments of our own money's to fix the intial investments that Muslims owned in most of the various places that they were targetted.
As far as in a political stand of point , the same people with this negative reaction could not have influnenced or convinced their own governments to boycott the most harmful economies to our lands. I would like to start the list with the United States and the main economies of Europe, those whom not only have supplied and protected the Zionist movement , but as well made our nation an extention of their own economies. A nation with out a modern infrastructure of their own, which depends mainly on the idealogies they implanted in us in such form of Nationalism, which is a weakening methodology to our Nation, where the Quran taught that unity is strength in the conversation of Luqman to his children.
The introduction of vanity is another conglomerate method to make sure that our economies will have a thisrt to always consume thier prodcuts of fasion , consumable goods and entertainment which we know today that in their totality have exceeded our consumption from what is necessary to excess. We all know that excess is a form of submission to our desires that Islam preeched upon us to prevent ourselves to fall in.
Dear Nader and Om Abyhaa
I regret to say that our nation intuitively reacted to the Danish comics because there wasn't intent planning from that government to harm the picture of our Prophet "your so called legened." (Legends don't exist, unless you believe in mythology). But I guess that our strength only permits us to flex our muscels and toungs on a 5 million people economy, that not only aren't harmful to us, but in the last six years alone have contributed in our poorest Arabic Economy "Yemen" in the most generous DONAIIONS of the value the exceeds 30 million Dollars in years 2000 and 2003, other than there yearly free Diary product supply.
My dear Nasser,
THe only reason that i expressed my opinion in such a pragmatic way is because I wished that there are more Muslims our there that would use the versus of the Quran as a way of response in interviews or ways of objection to those who try to gain the most out of us by making us portray our relegion in the most degrading way. A way that goes against all the fundementals that our relegtion came with. The prophet peace b upon him said": إنما بعثت لأتمم مكارم الاخلاق"
Being a resident in the United States and having views that differ from the main stream and being able to express them is different from where i orginiate from, due to the scilenced majority of our populations. But I am not claiming that I am being heard. Although if there were more peacful strategic negotiators then they would know that our united vioces could impact them with real loses of markets, Such as "Boycotts", becasue of our nations idealogical conformity.
Thank you very much for your responses
I wish we can discuss this issue and other issues further more as long as we may benefit each other.
Thanks alot
Ahmed Alshami
I would like to start my reply by praising our beloved Prophet Mohammed Peace be upon him and his family.
Al Imam Ali (Aleeh al salam) said: "If Poverty was a man, would've killed him." Sadly, we are a nation of poor people at heart and money. At heart, because we are people that belong in governmetns that could not have the guts or the ability to boycott those who are able to really harm us. Money wise, I am in pain to admit that we don't have the economic structure to sustain us. Besides, the demeaning deception that we felt from the Danish comics about the Prophet were not a representation of their society nor their government. It was a successful trial from an unethical agnostic or atheist who is seeking advancement in his position by increasing paper flow which is a marketing strategy, and unfortunatily his trigger was targetting a low level intelect population and we fell for it, which caused not only a negative behavious, that are totally against the teachings ofour Prophit, but as well the Quran. God said in the Quran : " And if the ignorant address them , they say, Peace!" God also said in the Quran : "When they pass by what is vain,they pass by nobly" both of these versus are from Surat Al Forqan Chapter 25 in the Quran. Both of these versue are a direct opposit of the reaction from the majority of our population, but as well caused us the cost of rebuilding and repairing the investments of our own money's to fix the intial investments that Muslims owned in most of the various places that they were targetted.
As far as in a political stand of point , the same people with this negative reaction could not have influnenced or convinced their own governments to boycott the most harmful economies to our lands. I would like to start the list with the United States and the main economies of Europe, those whom not only have supplied and protected the Zionist movement , but as well made our nation an extention of their own economies. A nation with out a modern infrastructure of their own, which depends mainly on the idealogies they implanted in us in such form of Nationalism, which is a weakening methodology to our Nation, where the Quran taught that unity is strength in the conversation of Luqman to his children.
The introduction of vanity is another conglomerate method to make sure that our economies will have a thisrt to always consume thier prodcuts of fasion , consumable goods and entertainment which we know today that in their totality have exceeded our consumption from what is necessary to excess. We all know that excess is a form of submission to our desires that Islam preeched upon us to prevent ourselves to fall in.
Dear Nader and Om Abyhaa
I regret to say that our nation intuitively reacted to the Danish comics because there wasn't intent planning from that government to harm the picture of our Prophet "your so called legened." (Legends don't exist, unless you believe in mythology). But I guess that our strength only permits us to flex our muscels and toungs on a 5 million people economy, that not only aren't harmful to us, but in the last six years alone have contributed in our poorest Arabic Economy "Yemen" in the most generous DONAIIONS of the value the exceeds 30 million Dollars in years 2000 and 2003, other than there yearly free Diary product supply.
My dear Nasser,
THe only reason that i expressed my opinion in such a pragmatic way is because I wished that there are more Muslims our there that would use the versus of the Quran as a way of response in interviews or ways of objection to those who try to gain the most out of us by making us portray our relegion in the most degrading way. A way that goes against all the fundementals that our relegtion came with. The prophet peace b upon him said": إنما بعثت لأتمم مكارم الاخلاق"
Being a resident in the United States and having views that differ from the main stream and being able to express them is different from where i orginiate from, due to the scilenced majority of our populations. But I am not claiming that I am being heard. Although if there were more peacful strategic negotiators then they would know that our united vioces could impact them with real loses of markets, Such as "Boycotts", becasue of our nations idealogical conformity.
Thank you very much for your responses
I wish we can discuss this issue and other issues further more as long as we may benefit each other.
Thanks alot
Ahmed Alshami
أللهم إني كنت كما أحب فاجعلني كما تحب
Re:
salaamz to all!
I know it's been a while since I posted a comment but I wanted to "put my 2 cents in".
First, i would like to say that for the Muslims to be engaging in this type of issue (the Danish cartoon controversy) on the Muslim internet forums and not the public, mainstream printed/electronic media shows our lack of strength at this point. That's not to say that it is bad, but it is a kind of answer to the question already.
Second, I think that before any of us engage in any action, it is incumbent that we know the ruling of Allah and his Messenger (phuh) concerning it. If the Hukm Shari' ruling for a person who defames the Prophet (sawaws) is death, than before carrying that out, we should investigate all of the related conditions, circumstances, etc. for that ruling. Meaning, answering questions such as, does the perpetrator have to be in islamic lands to carry out the hadd? Should he be given time to repent? Is it the job of each individual Muslim to kill this guy? etc.
With that in mind, the outrage, of course, is justified but were some of the various actions perpetuated justified? Meaning, how was destroying the Danish embassy (where a Danish Muslim ambassador worked) a hadd punishment for the insult?! Should we boycott everything Danish? If so, as the brother pointed out , we would have to boycott other nations associated with the crime! It doesn't make sense. Which points to my third point...
The wanton actions that people did showed the complete lack and need of centralized, Islamic leadership! I think that it has been too long that Muslims have casted off the yoke of obedience to a central authority (beit a caliph, imam, mujtahid, etc.) and the result has been that the Muslim world is full of what I would call "intellectual gypsies". By that I mean that we are so afraid to rely on the scholarship of another, we are left intellectually "wandering" without ever finding a home--like a gypsy! The idea of taqlid (a bad word nowadays) has been so misunderstood and demonized that it is often erroneously mistranslated as "blind following" by both Muslim intellectuals and orientalists. What it actually means is trusting either an imam, amir, mujtahid, scholar, etc. with our affaiars and obeying him as long as he does not lead us into the haraam. That has nothing to do with "blind following" but actually trusting. By us not relying on and trusting each other, we end up becoming a band of leaderless bedouins with our own opinions that can never unify us. If we had a knowledgeable authority that instructed us in how we should react Islamically, we wouldn't have had all of the chaos that happened!
On top of that, almost all of the religious authorities of the Muslim world (Sunni, Shi'i, Ibadhi, sufi, etc.) condemned the cartoon and appealed to the Muslims not to go to the extremes with their reactions! But what happened? The Muslims didn't listen because they feel that they are their own mujtahids and these scholars, to them, are just prayer leaders and not imams!
That's one reason why i admire the leadership of the 12er Shia world because if one of their ayatollahs say something, they do it. I don't know how many times Ayatollah Seestani told his followers that even if the enemies kill him, don't retaliate for the sake of peace! Subhana-Allah!
Just thought I'd share!
May Allah strenghten the hearts of the palestinians, iraqis, lebanese, syrians, yemenis, indonesians, etc. through these hard times!
T
I know it's been a while since I posted a comment but I wanted to "put my 2 cents in".
First, i would like to say that for the Muslims to be engaging in this type of issue (the Danish cartoon controversy) on the Muslim internet forums and not the public, mainstream printed/electronic media shows our lack of strength at this point. That's not to say that it is bad, but it is a kind of answer to the question already.
Second, I think that before any of us engage in any action, it is incumbent that we know the ruling of Allah and his Messenger (phuh) concerning it. If the Hukm Shari' ruling for a person who defames the Prophet (sawaws) is death, than before carrying that out, we should investigate all of the related conditions, circumstances, etc. for that ruling. Meaning, answering questions such as, does the perpetrator have to be in islamic lands to carry out the hadd? Should he be given time to repent? Is it the job of each individual Muslim to kill this guy? etc.
With that in mind, the outrage, of course, is justified but were some of the various actions perpetuated justified? Meaning, how was destroying the Danish embassy (where a Danish Muslim ambassador worked) a hadd punishment for the insult?! Should we boycott everything Danish? If so, as the brother pointed out , we would have to boycott other nations associated with the crime! It doesn't make sense. Which points to my third point...
The wanton actions that people did showed the complete lack and need of centralized, Islamic leadership! I think that it has been too long that Muslims have casted off the yoke of obedience to a central authority (beit a caliph, imam, mujtahid, etc.) and the result has been that the Muslim world is full of what I would call "intellectual gypsies". By that I mean that we are so afraid to rely on the scholarship of another, we are left intellectually "wandering" without ever finding a home--like a gypsy! The idea of taqlid (a bad word nowadays) has been so misunderstood and demonized that it is often erroneously mistranslated as "blind following" by both Muslim intellectuals and orientalists. What it actually means is trusting either an imam, amir, mujtahid, scholar, etc. with our affaiars and obeying him as long as he does not lead us into the haraam. That has nothing to do with "blind following" but actually trusting. By us not relying on and trusting each other, we end up becoming a band of leaderless bedouins with our own opinions that can never unify us. If we had a knowledgeable authority that instructed us in how we should react Islamically, we wouldn't have had all of the chaos that happened!
On top of that, almost all of the religious authorities of the Muslim world (Sunni, Shi'i, Ibadhi, sufi, etc.) condemned the cartoon and appealed to the Muslims not to go to the extremes with their reactions! But what happened? The Muslims didn't listen because they feel that they are their own mujtahids and these scholars, to them, are just prayer leaders and not imams!
That's one reason why i admire the leadership of the 12er Shia world because if one of their ayatollahs say something, they do it. I don't know how many times Ayatollah Seestani told his followers that even if the enemies kill him, don't retaliate for the sake of peace! Subhana-Allah!
Just thought I'd share!
May Allah strenghten the hearts of the palestinians, iraqis, lebanese, syrians, yemenis, indonesians, etc. through these hard times!
T
Re: addendum
salaamz!
Oh yeah, I forgot to add something.
In regards to not over reacting and adhering to a leader. One beautiful example is that of Amirul Mumineen (as). After Ibn Muljam struck him, he advised his son (as) to only kill Ibn Muljam and not anyone else and don't go to extremes! This shows the importance of not going to extremes regarding retaliation and also the importance of following your leader, even though they don't make them like Imam Ali anymore!
I think we should also be careful as to what we say what the Prophet (saw) would do if he was in our situation because it is conjecture. There were situations where he pardoned people for insulting him; however, there is also a situation where he sent sahabah to kill some people who made bad poetry about him (as). One of the guys that insulted him came to the Prophet (as) and made Tawbah to him and he (as) forgave him. Another poet ran and held on to the Ka'aba itself! The people said "Ya Rasulullah! He is holding on to the Ka'aba! What should we do?" He (as) said "kill him"!
Another point is that the reason why we don't react when someone says something derogatory about Allah and we do react when says something about the Messenger (saw) is because the ayat says: "The one who insults (or molests) the Rasul, the curse (or punishment) of Allah be on him in this world and the next." The scholars have taken this to mean punishing the person in this life. No such ayat exists that mentions the punishment in this life for reviling Allah. The aforementioned example is a proof of this because the poet who held on to the "House" of Allah was not spared but the one that held on to the "Messenger" of Allah was spared. May Allah bless him and his progeny!
yours,
T
Oh yeah, I forgot to add something.
In regards to not over reacting and adhering to a leader. One beautiful example is that of Amirul Mumineen (as). After Ibn Muljam struck him, he advised his son (as) to only kill Ibn Muljam and not anyone else and don't go to extremes! This shows the importance of not going to extremes regarding retaliation and also the importance of following your leader, even though they don't make them like Imam Ali anymore!
I think we should also be careful as to what we say what the Prophet (saw) would do if he was in our situation because it is conjecture. There were situations where he pardoned people for insulting him; however, there is also a situation where he sent sahabah to kill some people who made bad poetry about him (as). One of the guys that insulted him came to the Prophet (as) and made Tawbah to him and he (as) forgave him. Another poet ran and held on to the Ka'aba itself! The people said "Ya Rasulullah! He is holding on to the Ka'aba! What should we do?" He (as) said "kill him"!
Another point is that the reason why we don't react when someone says something derogatory about Allah and we do react when says something about the Messenger (saw) is because the ayat says: "The one who insults (or molests) the Rasul, the curse (or punishment) of Allah be on him in this world and the next." The scholars have taken this to mean punishing the person in this life. No such ayat exists that mentions the punishment in this life for reviling Allah. The aforementioned example is a proof of this because the poet who held on to the "House" of Allah was not spared but the one that held on to the "Messenger" of Allah was spared. May Allah bless him and his progeny!
yours,
T