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 عنوان المشاركة: 12r Challenge to the Zaydis
مشاركةمرسل: السبت يوليو 17, 2010 5:20 am 
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اشترك في: الخميس أكتوبر 19, 2006 10:08 pm
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A 12rs claims that these ahadith are proof against the Zaydis.

عباد عن عمرو عن ابى حمزه قال سمعت على بن الحسين (ع) يقول ان الله خلق محمدا وعليا واحد عشر من ولده من نور عظمته فاقامهم اشباحا في ضياء نوره يعبدونه قبل خلق الخلق يسبحون الله ويقدسونه وهم الائمة من ولد رسول الله



`Ibad from `Amr from Abu Hamza. He said: I heard `Ali b. al-Husayn عليهما السلام saying: Verily Allah created Muhammad and `Ali and eleven from his sons from the light of His majesty. So He raised them as phantoms in the luminosity of His light. They worshipped Him prior to the creation of creation, glorying Allah and sanctifying Him. And they are the Imams from the sons of the Messenger of Allah.



عباد رفعه إلى ابى جعفر (ع) قال قال رسول الله (ص) من ولدي احد عشر نقيبا نجيبا ( نقباء نجباء خ د ) محدثون مفهمون اخرهم القائم بالحق يملاءها ( الارض خ د ) عدلا كما ملئت جورا



`Ibad going up to Abu Ja`far عليه السلام. He said: The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله said: From my sons are eleven highborn chiefs, spoken to (i.e. by the angel) (muhaddathoon), made to understand (mufahhamoon); the last of them is the Qa’im by the Truth; he will fill it (the earth – in another manuscript) with justice as it had been filled with inequity.



عباد عن عمرو بن ثابت عن ابي جعفر عن ابيه عن ابائه قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وعليهم نجوم في السماء امان لاهل السماء فإذا ذهب نجوم السماء اتى اهل السماء ما يكرهون ونجوم من اهل بيتي من ولدي احد عشر نجما امان في الارض لاهل الارض ان تميد باهلها فإذا ذهبت نجوم اهل بيتي من الارض اتى اهل الارض ما يكرهون



`Ibad from `Amr b. Thabit from Abu Ja`far from his father from his fathers. He said: The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وعليهم said: The stars in the sky are a safeguard for the inhabitants of heaven; so when the stars of the sky go that which the inhabitants of heaven dislike will come. And the stars of my Ahl al-Bayt from my sons, the eleven stars, are a safeguard in the earth for the inhabitants of the earth lest it may shake with its inhabitants. And when the stars of my Ahl al-Bayt go away from the earth, that which the inhabitants of the earth are averse to shall come.



عباد عن عمرو عن ابي الجارود عن ابي جعفر (ع) قال قال رسول الله (ص) اني واحد عشر من ولدي وانت يا علي زر الارض اعني اوتادها جبالها و وقال وتد الله الارض ان تسيخ باهلها فإذا ذهب الاحد عشر من ولدي ساخت الارض باهلها ولم ينظروا



`Ibad from `Amr from Abu ‘l-Jarud from Abu Ja`far عليه السلام. He said: The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله said: Verily I and eleven of my sons and you, O `Ali, are the knobs of the earth, namely its pegs, its mountains. And he said: And Allah fastened the earth lest it sink with its inhabitants. So when the eleven from my sons go, the earth will sink with its inhabitants and they shall not be granted respite.



عباد عن عمر وعن ابيه عن ابي جعفر (ع) قال سمعته يقول لو بقيت الارض يوما بلا امام منا لساخت باهلها ولعذبهم الله باشد عذابه وذلك ان الله جعلنا حجة في ارضه وامانا في الارض لاهل الارض لن يزالوا في امان ان تسيخ بهم الارض مادمنا بين اظهرهم فإذا اراد الله ان يهلكهم ثم لا يمهلهم ولا ينظرهم ذهب بنا من بينهم ورفعنا إليه ثم يفعل الله بهم ما يشاء ( شاء م ) واحب



`Ibad from `Amr from his father from Abu Ja`far عليه السلام. He said: I heard him saying: Were the earth to remain a day without an Imam from among us it would sink with its inhabitants and Allah will chastise them with the severest of His chastisements and that is because Allah appointed us as a Proof in His earth and as safeguards in the earth for the inhabitants of the earth. They will never cease to be in security from the sinking of the earth along with them as long as we remain in their midst. So when Allah intends to destroy them, He shall not act hesitantly towards them nor shall He grant them respite. He will take us away from their midst and raise us towards Himself. Then Allah will do with them what He wishes and likes.


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 عنوان المشاركة: Re: 12r Challenge to the Zaydis
مشاركةمرسل: السبت يوليو 17, 2010 5:41 am 
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اشترك في: الخميس أكتوبر 19, 2006 10:08 pm
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The link for these ahadiths is here.
http://www.tashayyu.org/hadiths/asl-abu ... al--usfari
The 12rs say this is legitimate proof against the 12rs because Abu Sa`id al-`Usfari, is recorded to have been a Jarudi Zaydi.

tashayyu.org note: The compiler of this asl, Abu Sa`id al-`Usfari, is recorded to have been a Jarudi Zaydi scholar in Kufa who died in the year 250 AH. Sunni rijal sources condemn him for being a Rafidi "extremist", however also state that he was nonetheless thiqa and truthful in reporting hadith (see al-Mizan of adh-Dhahabi, vol 2, pg 379-380), included as a narrator in Bukhari's Sahih. It is very noteworthy to point out that his death would have been ten years prior the ghayba of our living Imam, may Allah hasten his reappearance, thus answering the objection (with the hadiths here explicitly stating it) that the doctrine of there being twelve Imams with the last being the Qa'im was unknown prior to the death of the eleventh Imam, Imam al-Hasan al-`Askari عليه السلام.


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 عنوان المشاركة: Re: 12r Challenge to the Zaydis
مشاركةمرسل: الأحد يوليو 18, 2010 12:43 pm 
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اشترك في: الأحد مارس 14, 2010 12:24 pm
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Yes. I searched for this personality but couldn't find anything on him.

Even if he was a Zaydi scholar, this does not constitute a proof for them!

Allah knows best!


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 عنوان المشاركة: Re: 12r Challenge to the Zaydis
مشاركةمرسل: الأحد يوليو 18, 2010 6:26 pm 
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اشترك في: الخميس أكتوبر 19, 2006 10:08 pm
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What about Abbad b. Ya`qub al-Rawajini ?
He was a popular shia. Does his view hold any significance on the Zaydis ? When I went to the 12rs site I found this about him.

Abu Said `Abbad b. Ya`qub al-Rawajini al- `Asfari (d. 250/864) was one of the leading scholars of the Shi’ite sect al-Zaydiyya al­Jarudiyya. He compiled a book of traditions entitled Kitab Abu Said al- Asfari. The importance of this work is that its author cites a tradition referring to the occultation at least ten years before its occurrence. He also mentions other traditions which point to the fact that the number of the Imams would end with the Twelfth Imam and that he would be al-Qa’im. However in contrast to the Imamites he does not mention the names of the twelve Imams.
http://www.al-islam....on_12imam/3.htm .


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 عنوان المشاركة: Re: 12r Challenge to the Zaydis
مشاركةمرسل: الأحد يوليو 18, 2010 9:36 pm 
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اشترك في: الأحد مارس 14, 2010 12:24 pm
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salaamz!

I think the both of these people are the same person! Their names are just spelled differently.

Allah knows best!


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مشاركةمرسل: الثلاثاء يوليو 20, 2010 12:39 am 
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اشترك في: الخميس أكتوبر 19, 2006 10:08 pm
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I found this online

Abbad ibn Yaqub Koofe. Shia. Abu Hatim and Ibn Khuzayma said he’s thiqat. Ibn Adi said: “And Abbad ibn Yaqub, known from people of Kofa, and in him quluw in at-tashayu, and he narrated ahadeth, which were rejected from him, in praise of ahlalbayt, and harm of others”. It was reported that he use to say: “Allah is just, to let Talha and Zubayr enter the heaven”. And it was narrated that he use to abuse Uthman (Mizzi “Tahzib al-kamal” 14/#3104). Ibn Hibban said: “He was caller to rafd, and along with that narrated manakir from famous people, deserve to be abandoned”. Dhahabi said that he was from qulatu shia, and from the head of innovations, but saduq in his narrations. (“Mizanul itidal” 2/379/#4149). Hatib mentioned that ibn Khuzayma stopped narrating from Abbad in the end (“Tahzib at-tahzib” 5/#183). Ibn Jawzi included Abbad in his book on weak and abandoned narrators, and cited there opinion of scholars (“Duafa wal matrukin” 2/p77).

wassalam
Mystics friend


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إرسال موضوع جديد الرد على الموضوع  [ 6 مشاركة ] 

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